Greeks could be allowed to borrow the Elgin Marbles

Dalya Alberge, Arts Correspondent

The British Museum has intimated that the Elgin Marbles could be lent to Athens.

Neil MacGregor, its director, said that, like any object in its collection, a loan would be possible if the

Greek Government acknowledged the museum’s ownership of the sculptures.

The Greek authorities hailed his comments as unprecedented. One source told The Times: “This is the first time they’ve ever said they’d let them out of the museum. We’ve said we’re not disputing the ownership.”

The Marbles, now known as the Parthenon Marbles, have been the subject of a bitter dispute since the 19th century, when Lord Elgin, as the British Ambassador, removed them from the Acropolis in Athens.

In an interview with Bloomberg News, Mr MacGregor appeared to open the door to a compromise. Asked whether the trustees would consider a request from Athens to borrow the Marbles, he said: “There is no reason why any object in the museum, if it is fit to travel, shouldn’t spend three months, six months, somewhere else. So, in principle, absolutely yes.

“The difficulty at the moment is that the Greek Government has formally, and recently, refused to acknowledge that the trustees are the owners of the objects.” He said the Greek Government had never officially asked to borrow the treasures. “The issue has always been about the permanent removal of all the Parthenon material in the BM collection to Athens,” he said.

Victoria Solomonidis, the cultural counsellor at the Greek Embassy in London, said: “The words of Neil MacGregor are most welcome news. The Greek side is interested in the reunification of the Parthenon and the issue of ownership does not come into it.”

Eleni Corka, an official in the Greek Culture Ministry, told the BBC: “I believe that if we discuss the issue we will find ground which will be suitable and solutions which will be profitable for both sides.”

Britain has argued that when Lord Elgin bought and removed the Marbles between 1803 and 1812 he was acting legally and that, had he not done so, they would have suffered at least a further century of deterioration. Fearing their destruction in the conflict between the Greeks and the Turks, the 7th Earl secured permission from the Turks to remove the antiquities.

Campaigners have challenged whether the removal of the marbles has been of any benefit. Anthony Snodgrass, Laurence Professor Emeritus of Classical Archaeology at the University of Cambridge, has argued the British Museum’s Marbles now pale against those that Lord Elgin did not remove.

He believes original details that are absent from the British Museum’s creamy-white sculptures — which had a millimetre of the surface skin removed during the cleaning scandal of the 1930s — can be seen in the warm brown Greek figures that remain in Athens.

Looking at a depiction of two horsemen which Elgin did not remove, he noted that chisel marks and traces of colour in the crevices and folds of drapery, along with anatomical details such as veins on the horses’ bellies, are all missing from the London sculptures.

Eleni Cubitt, of the British Committee for the Reunification of the Parthenon Marbles, said: “It’s the first time Neil MacGregor has made a proposition of this kind.”

A multimillion-pound Acropolis Museum, with a spectacular gallery to house the Marbles, is due to be completed this summer.

A spokeswoman for the British Museum said that objects could not be lent to a country where their ownership is not recognised as vested in the museum.

The treasure

— The temple of Athena Parthenos, known as the Parthenon, was built on the Athens Acropolis, probably between 447 and 438BC. It is thought the sculptures were not finished until about 432BC

— The pediments, triangular gables at each end of the building, were decorated with sculptural groups showing the birth of Athena and the contest between Athena and Poseidon for the land of Attica

— Metopes or relief panels showing scenes from the battle between the Lapiths and centaurs also originally decorated the exterior of the building

— In 1816, MPs found that the collection was acquired legitimately by Lord Elgin as a private individual. The collection was acquired by the British Museum

— The suggestion that it be returned to Athens was raised in the Commons in 1816. Greeks began calling for its return in 1833

Source: British Museum
Have your say

What is the argument here? The marbles are Greek. Return them. Period.

john martin, mississauga, canada

I don't see what makes the Elgin (Parthenon) Marbles any different from other artefacts that were taken from their land of origin by every single European country that had an empire. I won't go into details, but whole temples have been moved; art taken and artefacts seized. They should not be returned, nor should anything else, in any of the museums around the world. As far as I'm concerned about the lending-to-greece-for-six-months debate, unless they have them in a museum inside the British Embassy, we won't see them ever again.

Leonardo Williams, Brussels , Belgium

It is vital that the Parthenon Marbles will be returned to its original place, Athens Parthenon. These marbles are part of the Greek History, and they mean nothing outside of the Greek borders.

Sadly enough, British government knows that the only reason that the British museum is so famous, is because of the Greek and Roman Marbles- and that's because they will never let these marbles be returned without a high return.
British Museum is a tourist attraction 365 days per year, and we all know that London, apart from being the economic capital of Europe, is strungling to be the number one tourism destination as well.

Propably the only way to "make" BM to return the Marbles to Greece would be a joined request from Greece, Italy and all other countries that want their treasures to be returned- and they have every single reason.

Dimitrios Katakis, London,

Let's get it right. They are the Parthenon Marbles and they belong in Greece. They are not the Elgin Marbles after the 'skint' Englishman who basically stole them and brought them to Britain. Return them back to Greece where they belong! Why do the Brits always stick their nose where it doesn't belong, and how dare they change the name of the marbles. They stole them and and claim ownership of them. Guilty of handling stolen goods. They then stuck them in the "British Museum" with other antiquities from around the world. How much stuff is actually British anyway in that museum.
Disgusting.
There is a brand new museum waiting to receive them. Let them go back to their rightful owners, the Greeks! The Greeks, who sweated to build them before Christ was born!

Maria Savva, Hertfordshire, United Knigdom

To answer Steve of Tunbridge Wells, how would we "restore and replicate" the Parthenon.? It is still a little known fact amongst the general public that Ancient Greek and possibly Roman statues of marble were most vigourously scrubbed because of either contemporary taste or to get rid of "vandalism". Of what material would you replace the roof? Fibre glass? Plastic? In certain lights even the most sublime of sculptures ( Michaelangelo's Pieta) can look as though carved from soap! No. I say we have to trust the Greeks and lend them back to Greece on frequent visits of several month's duration. You all assume every Greek can travel to London. That is not so. Sadly, here in London the light is so unforgiving that the marbles always look as though they will start to shiver at any minute. Museums have to learn to trust and be generous - lending solves both dilemmas.

Carlyle Braden, Croydon, U.K.

Is this the beginning of a change in the attitude from the part of the British Museum? Let’s hope it is. I believe that the issue of ownership can be overcome relatively easily. The BM can surely retain ownership of the Elgin Marbles and at the same time agree to lent them on a long term loan agreement to the New Acropolis Museum which is nearing its completion. The BM and the NAM can then jointly take care of the Marbles. The end goal is to be able to display all the Sculptures in one single location. Ownership will matter little to the visitors who would really marvel at the finally reunified Sculptures.

Lazaros Filippidis, London,

The British Museum has no basis for claiming ownership of the Parthenon sculptures. It is an established fact, that they were removed from the Parthenon without the permission of the people of Greece who own them.
Rather that rehash the same old arguments re owner-ship, it is time for the British Museum as well as the
British Government to face up to the Parthenon sculptures issue and acknowledge that they simply do not belong in London -- not with a brand new
museum waiting to receive them in Athens.

Dennis MENOS, Chevy Chase, MD, USA

The Parthenon Marbles are stolen property and should be returned to Greece.

Cindy Galeski, clinton, ma

Living in Greece, I obviously agree that the Parthenon Marbles should be returned forthwith.

In a museum on Corfu there are large numbers of Chinese artifacts that were 'stolen' (?) by a Greek diplomat in China. Perhaps these should be returned as well. And so on...

If you look at any museum, anywhere, a large proportion of its exhibits come from elsewhere. Perhaps, typically half?

If all museums were expected to return foreign items, everywhere, they would lose most of their utility as an educational establishment. It this what we really want.

What would the French and the curators of the Louvre say if the Italians wanted the Mona Lisa back?

Brian Vallance, LEFKIMMI, Greece

The Elgin Marbles should be returned to the Greek
people.
Can you imagine the pray of the great train robbery
displayed at a Brazilian museum?

Jesus Merino, Vitoria, Spain

The New Acropolis Museum will soon open its doors. Empty spaces will represent the missing Sculptures. The comment by Neil MacGregor represents a long awaited change of attitude in the way that the British Museum is run. Comments referring to luck of trust and to the inability of the Greeks to take care of the Sculptures are truly invalid. A new era begins where we’ll see cooperation between museums rather than animosity and crude competition. Well done Neil MacGregor!

Lazaros Filippidis, London, England

The Greeks suffered enough under Ottoman and Nazi occupation and they have certainly given enough of their culture over the last couple millenia. The marbles should be returned. Even if the marbles were removed to protect them, then it makes sense that they are no longer in danger and therefore should be returned. Could you image someone coming to London and removing one of the lions from Trafalgar square?; Prizing out one of the tombs at Westminster Abbey? They belong with the Acropolis.

Mame du Bois, Toowoomba, Australia

If they were indeed 'bought' by Lord Elgin, Greece should be allowed to buy them back, at today's equivalent price.
they belong in Greece.

Mo, LA, CA

The Marbles belong in Greece, at the Acropolis. Anyone who has visited the stunning ancient Greek site will agree. The British Museum relies on a redundant and very colonial argument to hold on to the marbles.

Lia, London,

Bernard's comments about Lord Elgin 'rescuing' the marbles does amuse me - I asume all Greeks should be truly grateful to him for getting his saw out on one of the most precious sites in Greece.

The Parthenon marbles should be admired in the place they were created and destined to be admired in - in the heart of the ancient and beautiful city of Athens.

Katerina P, London,

Bernard's view's do amuse me here.. Lord Elgin's 'rescuing' the marbles by means of sawing them off the rock is truly something that all Greeks should be grateful to him for apparently?

The fact that the marbles were obtained under Ottoman rule should be enough to allow Greece to state it's rights with reference to its treasured artefacts.

Athens today has all the necessary measures to protect and care for the marbles so The British Museum should no longer use the excuse that Athens does not have the facilities for their protection that London does. Let the marbles be admired in the context in which they were destined, in the beautiful heart of the historic city of Athens.

Katerina P, London,

It's time they went home.Imagine the hysterical outcry if they belonged in Africa.

Dave, Bath, England

Has Neil MacGregor lost his marbles ( I referring to his common sense , but he certainly will lose the Elgins). The Greek legal system is so dodgy ( as demonstrated by the plane spotters saga of a few years ago), that once the Elgin Marbles go there they will never leave the country again. The Greeks will just ignore recognised laws and do their own thing. Let them put replicas up for display and leave the originals in the good hands where they have been for the last 150+ years.

Sam, Hong Kong,

The British Museum would be wiser keep their mouth shut. The marbles are British and were bought and paid for from the legitate Government at the time, when Greece was part of the Ottoman empire. If Lord Elgin hadn't have moved them to the safe hands of people who would look after them they wouldn't now exist.

Anyone Greek can see them free of charge in London and should be greatful to Lord Elgin for their continued existance. They can never be 'leant' to Greece as they frankly cannot be trusted.

Don, London,

Define borrow.

Plato, Peterborough, uk

Beware of Greeks borrowing gifts.

Charles, London, England

Give them back to Greece. They were stolen in the first place and most of them languish in the vaults of the Briotish Museum, unseen. Perhaps the Greeks could then restore most of the Parthenon and we would all benefit!

Joe McGoran, Somewhere in, France

They do not seem to be the only people to have lost their marbles.
The fact is that they would not exist at all if Lord Elgin had not rescued them.

Perhaps they should ask for damages from the Turks who used it as an amunition store which exploded destroying part of the Temple.

Bernard Parke, Guildford,

I believe it would be possible, using the latest computer techniques, to produce faithful copies of the Elgin marbles. What they should do is make a faithful copy of the Elgin marbles, have one set in Athens and the other in the British Museum, and refuse to state which is the original. That would solve the problem.

Henry Percy, London, UK

Duane ... please leave our crown jewels out of this - where could this all lead? You'll be wanting the ashes urn to stay in Australia next?

Graham, London, England

Parthenon Marbles are a unique heritage of Greek culture and an unbreakable part of Parthenon.

Thus, I believe they should be returned to their home land; Athens, Greece.

What happened back in 1800's is a little bit blurred and for little value today. UK and Greece have more in common and there is no greater act of respect than allow the Marbles return back in Attica's land.

Unfortunately, during the 400 dark years under the Ottoman Empire, Greece's heritage plundered both by the Turks and western individuals. At least let Marbles repatriate - they are symbols of Ancient Athens, born Democracy and cultivated contemporary western civilisation.

Dimitris, Athens, Greece

The sooner we allow these sculptures to return to their original site the better. The display of them in the British Museum is odd: inside out and anyway meaningless without the concept of the Parthenon itself. What a shame our cleaning of them damaged them further. Now is the time for the Trustees to be as helpful as they can to our Greek friends.

Paolo, London, UK

I think that The British Museum should abandon its bully tactics and return to the rightful owners all property which belongs to another country. I wonder if the British had lost World War 2 and the Crown Jewels were in a museum in Germany now, would they want them returned to British soil! The raping of these countries treasures over the past few hundrad years was at a different time. It is now time for museums around the world to return to the rightful owners, antiquities which rightfully belong to the country in which they were stolen

Duane Keys, Sydney, Australia,

The Parthenon was damaged in a relatively recent war, and then by reuse of stone. Why can it not be gloriously restored like so many churches across Europe which have suffered much more severe damage? Modern NC machinery using good 'marble' would make excellent replica panels to resist air pollution, and the originals could be displayed on 'permanent loan' nearby, if they are thought interesting enough out-of-context.

Steve, Tunbridge Wells, England